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Interest as rent for money

Thinking about interest as the price of money. Looking at money from a supply and demand perspective. Created by Sal Khan.

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  • piceratops ultimate style avatar for user Bonnie McLeish
    How is price different from cost. In Sal's world the interest rate is 5%, which means that the cost of money would be $1.05 per dollar, because you pay the value of the dollar and the "rent" or interest on the dollar. Sal said that the price of a dollar was $0.05; I thought that price and cost were the same thing, but Sal's and my numbers are different. Is there some slightly different meaning for one of these, when used in an economic context, that I don't know about?
    (8 votes)
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    • leaf green style avatar for user Jack Horan
      Bonnie, your first assumption is the problem. The cost of money is .05, not 1.05. You do not pay the dollar, you pay back the dollar that you rented for a period of time. The .05 cost allowed you to use someone else's money for a year, at the end of which you gave it back to him or her. You forgot to consider that you received something.

      Price and cost are different things in Economics, but that does not apply here. Cost, to an economist, is the next best option that you give up when you do or buy anything. If you use $15 to download music instead of buying a book, then the cost of the music (to you) is the book. $15 is the money price of either the music or the book.
      (16 votes)
  • blobby green style avatar for user Patrick
    I just took a test, and I got this question wrong: An expansionary fiscal policy would most likely cause which of the following changes in output and interest rates?
    I answered Increase Output and Decrease Interest Rate....but it was wrong...the answer is Increase in both. How so? doesnt lower interest rates help expand an economy?
    (3 votes)
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  • old spice man green style avatar for user Dania  Zaheer
    So, what's good for an economy, high interest rates or low interest rates? and how do interest rates really affect a country's trade balance and all of that ?
    (5 votes)
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    • spunky sam blue style avatar for user jacobsmithguitar
      If you make interest rates low, then investment grows because it is cheaper for companies to borrow money. Because money is "cheaper," companies who otherwise wouldn't have expanded will expand. Thus, investment will increase and this will increase GDP. Consumption will also increase for much the same reason. Also, since the interest rate is low, foreign demand for money will be low because citizens of other nations won't want to keep their money in a currency with a low interest rate. This low demand will decrease the exchange rate so that our money is now worth less than the currency of other nations. This will make our goods cheaper in the eyes of foreigners, who will now obviously start buying our goods over their domestic equivalent goods. Therefore, exports also increase. All of this decreases GDP.
      The converse is also true; high interest rates will discourage investment, consumption, exports, etc., and will decrease GDP--but they will make the currency more valuable.
      So are low interest rates better than high interest rates? Not always. If GDP is too high and there is an inflationary gap, you could use high interest rates to decrease demand and GDP. If there is a recessionary gap, you're better off lowering the interest rate.
      (6 votes)
  • blobby green style avatar for user safi
    is this example true both for the long and short run?
    (4 votes)
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  • piceratops seed style avatar for user samaria vaughn
    What's the difference between price and cost,can someone please explain A-Z the concept to me again?Thank you.
    (2 votes)
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    • purple pi purple style avatar for user dmorris.delta6
      You can think of price as the dollar value that someone would charge to buy a certain good or service. So, whenever you go into a store to buy something, all the values shown are prices. The price dictates how much money you must give up in order to acquire that good or service.

      However, economists realise that when you buy something, you are not just giving up the money that you pay for it. You are also giving up the opportunity to buy the next-best alternative good or service. In an example used by another answerer elsewhere, they gave the example of buying a book, or a music album, both with a price tag of $15, and you only have $15 to spend.

      The price for either alternative is $15, that is quite clear, however, there is also the cost of the opportunity forgone when you make the decision to buy one over the other. Your opportunity cost of buying the book would be the value of the music album, which in this case is $15. Therefore, the total cost of the book is actually $30.

      There are other components to cost, such as time, but opportunity cost is one of the most evident, and serves as the greatest distinction between cost and price.
      (2 votes)
  • leafers seedling style avatar for user David Larisch Frazer
    Why is there huge demand for the first few dollars? What's so special about them? I am really confused.
    (2 votes)
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    • aqualine ultimate style avatar for user Stefan van der Waal
      There are people out there who have a wonderful idea for a company, but they just need some money to start it. They have such high hopes they are willing to go as far as to pay 30% of interest a year. So there's nothing special about the dollars, but something special about what people are going to do with them.
      (2 votes)
  • piceratops seed style avatar for user Cooper Fields
    Wouldn't demand be lower at a higher interest rate because borrowers wouldn't want to pay back their loan at a higher interest rate? I don't understand why demand is so high at higher interest rates, same with supply. It would make more sense that banks and lenders would supply more at a higher interest rate.
    (2 votes)
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  • leafers tree style avatar for user AutoTurtle
    At , Sal illustrates that Demand is dropping because of the increase in Supply. But this appears to me to be flawed. Is Sal not describing a long-term or macroeconomic event here, whereas the initial change in supply was a short-term micro event?

    When the supply initially increases, the supply curve shifts. But if we look at where it meets the demand curve, we see that the graph already illustrates the drop in demand. Nothing has artificially caused the demand curve to move left in the short term.

    I think a more apt cause for shifting the demand curve would be a sudden surfeit (or excessive amount) of some good/service that everyone spends money on. For example: If I discover how to teleport people, then nobody needs a car. Suddenly, no one needs to spend money on cars. Then there is less demand for money. The demand curve for money shifts.
    (1 vote)
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    • ohnoes default style avatar for user Tejas
      Sal isn't saying that demand is decreasing because of the increase in supply. The reason demand is decreasing is because the people who would have wanted to borrow money now don't need to borrow because money was dropped from a helicopter.

      If there is more money in the hands of people who want to borrow, that will decrease the demand for money. If there is more money in the hands of people who want to lend, that will increase the supply of money. Since the government is dropping money from helicopters, it ends up going to both those who would borrow and those who would lend, which means that both demand decreases and supply increases.
      (2 votes)
  • mr pink red style avatar for user anagha pn
    Can somebody please explain liquidity trap?
    (1 vote)
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  • leaf green style avatar for user Jack Haze
    I know I must have an error in my understanding and would appreciate some clarification as it relates to this video.

    I'm not sure if I can look at it this was, but the way I learned Supply and Demand is that from the suppliers point of view, they are willing to supply quantity of more of something, the higher the price they can get for it. In this case banks are more willing to supply more money ,the higher the interest rate they can get on that money. Likewise, the customer, in this case businesses, are going to demand more loans / or in this case quantity of money, the lower the interest rates get (hence why the fed drops interest o hold off or combat a recession, to try and spur economic activity. So, first off, is it correct to view it like this in regards to Sal's S & D orignal example.

    Secondly, Sal goes on to give an example of what happens if money is dropped out of an airplane and everyone has more money (a classic inflationary example). So, I think I understand why the Supply curve will increase and move to the right. Is it because given that people and businesses need to find a place to invest their new money (aka the supply increased), the price the banks were willing to pay for the money (in this case, the interest rates) decreases at any given quantity of money.... Or, in other words, when the Fed prints more money and increase the money supply, which in effect keeps interest rates down, but may increase asset prices? Am I correct here?

    But, my big misunderstanding is first, why does the increase in the supply of money, have any effect on the demand? Is it because since the supply of money increased, which decreased the interest rates banks are willing to charge for the cost to borrow money. And if that is the case, wouldn't demand either stay the same or increase, because there would be more customers demanding cheaper money that the bank is willing to supply. In other words, there would be deals investors would be willing to do at 6% that were not economically feasible at 10%?

    I think my misunderstanding may be in the following, when changing the supply and demand chart from price to interest rate, does that inverse everything, similar to bonds where an increase in price a person is willing to pay for a bond, effectively is a decrease in yield? Also, am I confusing the price a bank is willing to pay for deposits (cost of funds) in this chart, with the price they are willing to charge a customer?

    Thank you very much in advance for taking the time to answer. Best Regards
    (1 vote)
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    • aqualine ultimate style avatar for user Stefan van der Waal
      I'm pretty sure this is the longest question I've ever seen.
      Anyway, I visualized the drop in demand the following way: I want to buy a new car. I already saved some money, but I still need to borrow an extra $10.000,- to pay for that car. I was just walking to the bank to borrow the money when the plane of the government flew over and it dropped some money. I managed to collect $4.000,- from that. Now I only need to borrow $6.000,- more to pay for that car or in other words, I demand less money than before the government dropped money.

      The chart is also not inverted. Bonds are included in this graph. If you want to buy a bond, you can say you're demanding a bond, buy you can also say you're willing to supply money.

      To answer your last question, banks aren't able to magically create money to lend out (there's the system of fractional reserve lending, and the central bank can create money, so in some way banks can magically create money, but let's not go to deep in the details over here). Banks get much of their money from people who deposit their money at the bank. So the people who deposit their money at the bank are actually the suppliers of money.

      I hope I cleared up a few things for you.
      (2 votes)

Video transcript

Voiceover: What I want to do in this video is talk a little bit about money and interest rates and do it in kind of a microeconomic framework, so that we understand the relationship between the supply of money and demand for money and the price of money, which we'll see is what interest rates actually are. Once we do that, then we'll be able to be more fluent in discussing money and interest rates and supply and demand and price of money in a macroeconomic context. Maybe the most confusing thing, when you view money in a microeconomic context is what is the price of money? You might already be guessing the price of money is the interest rate. To understand that a little bit better, the best way to think about it is you're not necessarily buying money. Interest is rent on money. If I said, "What is the price of an apartment "in my neighborhood?" Someone might say a one-bedroom apartment, and that actually is pretty close to the prices where I live, here in northern California. If you want even the most basic, one-bedroom apartment, it's going to run you about $1200 per month, which is about $14,400 per year. We should say per apartment per year. This is essentially the cost of your apartment. Now, if I went to the bank and I said, "Hey, I want to borrow $10,000." Maybe I want to buy a car or something, they would quote an interest rate. They would say, "Okay, you can borrow that "at an interest rate of - I don't know. Interest rates are pretty low right now. They'll say, "You can borrow that at an interest rate "at 5%." To see that is essentially the cost of renting money, we could essentially just say that this is 5 - We could view this as $0.05 per dollar per year. Once again, when you're renting an apartment, it was $14,000 per apartment per year. Now, at an interest rate of 5%, that is $0.05 per dollar per year. It's the exact same thing. This right over here is the rental price on the actual money that I'm borrowing. Once you have that in your head and you feel comfortable with that, now we can actually draw a supply and demand graph and the microeconomics context. Now that we know how to think about the price of money. Let's draw a little supply and demand diagram right over here and we're going to, like we often do in our little economic models we do, we're going to super oversimplify it. We're going to not think about things like credit risk and the chances of probability that people do pay back or won't pay back the money and things like (unintelligible) and all of that. We'll just assume that everyone is going to pay back the money and they're all risk free. They're all going to do exactly what they said. In this axis right over here, this is - Let's call this the market for borrowing money for 1 year. As we'll see and you might already know, they'll have different prices for borrowing money for different lengths of time. I might charge you more to borrow money for a year than I would charge you for borrowing money for a month, because maybe I won't have access to that money or there's a bigger risk that something might happen in that year, so I'll charge you more for it. I have to fix the year. The market for borrowing money for 1 year. Most of these supply and demand graphs, the vertical axis, we have price, but now, as we just indicated, the price of money is really just the interest rate. I'll call this price, so this is our - Same yellow, so this is our price axis and it's measured as interest rate percentage. Interest rate is how we're going to measure it. This right over here, let's say that that is 30% interest, this is 15% interest, and then this would be 10%, 5%, this would be 20%, 25%. Pretty good. Then over here we would have the quantity of money and I'll just pick some values here. We could even say that that is in billions of dollars. We could size it right, based on whether we're talking about our town, our city, or whatever, the whole world, or whatever it is. It depends on what currency and all of that, but we're just assuming that we're on some island with one currency and all the rest. Let's say that this is 1 billion, 2 billion, 3 billion, 4 billion, and 5 billion. You can imagine, let's first think about the demand curve. We could think of it as a marginal benefit curve. Those first few dollars that are out to be lent, there are someone who is going to get a huge marginal benefit of it. They want to take that, either they want to borrow it and use it for some type of consumption that they want to buy that would make them very, very, very happy, or at least they think it'll make them very happy, or they want to use it for some type of investment, where they're like, "Wow, if I could just borrow some money, "I have this no-risk investment that's just going "to make me a gazillionaire." Those first few dollars there's huge demand, huge marginal benefit for you. You could use as a willingness to pay for those first few dollars is very high, so maybe it is way up here. People are willing to pay an excess of 30% for those first few dollars. Then, as there's more and more dollars, the incremental next borrower gets a little bit less marginal benefit from it. You would have a declining demand curve that looks something like this. This is the exact same thought process as you would have if we were thinking about the market for ice cream of if we're thinking about the market for apartments or for anything else. This is our demand curve. When we think about the supply curve, same exact thought process as we would for supply of any product. Those first few dollars, the people lending the money, there are probably people there willing to lend for very little. They have nothing else to do with that money. Another way to think of it is they have very little to do with that money. Their marginal cost of lending that money is very low. The supply curve might start over here. People will start to be willing to lend the money to very low interest rate. This looks like about 1%. Then, each incremental dollar, the opportunity cost for that lender is going to get higher and higher. The interest for that next incremental dollar is going to get higher and higher. We've now drawn the supply and demand graphs for the market for borrowing money for 1 year. This is right here. This is the supply and this is in billions of dollars per year. This is how much is going to be lent in that year and it's for borrowing money for a year. As we see, we can view money just like we can view any other product. There's going to be an equilibrium price here, an equilibrium quantity. The way I drew it right over here, the equilibrium price and remember the price of money is really just the interest rate. The equilibrium price right over here is 10%, which you could view as $0.10 per dollar per year. The equilibrium quantity of money that gets lent and borrowed looks like it's about 2.7 or 2.8 billion dollars gets lent and borrowed in that year, in each year. When we look at it this way, then we can start thinking about some macroeconomics phenomenon. What happens if all of a sudden everybody in the world or in our little universe right over here gets a little bit more money thrown in their pocket. The government prints a bunch of money, drops it from helicopters, and everyone has more money in their pockets. Well, then, all of a sudden, at any given interest rate, the supply will go up. The supply curve will shift in this direction, so we might have a new supply curve that looks something like this. We might have a new supply curve that looks something like this. Then, also, maybe the demand will go down. At any given interest rate, at any given price, there will be less demand, because those people who needed to borrow money, now they have to borrow less money. This will shift to the left. The new demand curve might look like that. What happened? What would be our new equilibrium price? It depends how much I shift one or the other, but the way I drew it, our equilibrium quantity doesn't change much, but it could change, depending on how much the supply or demand shifts. What does definitely happen, when that money got printed and distributed to all of these people, is now all of a sudden, the equilibrium interest rate has gone down. The equilibrium interest rate now, based on the way I drew it, looks like it's closer to about, I don't know, about 6%. The whole - You can even think of another reality where, all of a sudden, money disappears from the market, or a reality where, for whatever reason, because of good marketing or a psychological shift in people, all of a sudden, people want to save less, so that there is less supply of money. Or maybe, all of a sudden, there's all these great investment opportunities, so now there's more demand for money and you could think about how these curves would shift and what would happen to the interest rate. Just how you would think about it for any good or service in a microeconomic context.