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Ludwig van Beethoven: Symphony No. 5, a conducting lesson by Gerard Schwarz (1st Movement)

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  • blobby green style avatar for user Betty Bunney
    Why do the musicians not look at the conductor?
    (17 votes)
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  • orange juice squid orange style avatar for user Carolina Correia
    Does the conductor "memorize" the music? It's possible to see the players looking at the music, but the conductor barely glances it. And since it seems that he must to be aware of every single detail of the music, I can't imagine how difficult it must be.
    (11 votes)
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    • leaf blue style avatar for user Peterson
      Yes, some of the greatest composers have made a habit of memorizing the orchestral scores, as it allows them to focus solely on the music when they are performing, and not have to detract from the performance by worrying about turning pages. While they do not have to memorize every single note, they still have to know all of the parts of the score and understand how the work together to produce a balanced and coherent sound.
      (13 votes)
  • duskpin ultimate style avatar for user M. Burton
    How do the musicians watch the conductor and read their music?
    (9 votes)
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    • duskpin ultimate style avatar for user Amilah
      You can memorize your music, however that can be close to impossible if playing long pieces. Instead, the musicians arrange their music stands in a way where they can glance from the music to the conductor quickly. I hope that answered your question!
      (2 votes)
  • male robot hal style avatar for user Angelic
    What is the history behind conductors' using batons (if that's what they're called)? Are they really necessary or is it just traditional? Thanks.
    (7 votes)
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    • orange juice squid orange style avatar for user eigenface
      Good question! They are called batons, and while they're not strictly necessary, they're useful to enhance the conductor's movements and increase his visibility to the entire orchestra. They actually weren't used much until the mid 1800s, but it caught on quickly. :)
      (14 votes)
  • leafers ultimate style avatar for user Rob
    Must the conductor glare angrily when conducting the first movement of Beethoven's 5th, or can they have a big cheesy smile as they begin?
    (5 votes)
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    • blobby green style avatar for user Gwen Hutchinson
      The conductor's style, whether it be in his expression or the ferocity in which he conducts itself generally matches the tone/sound of the music. So theoretically a conductor could begin with a big cheesy smile at the beginning of the first movement of Beethoven's 5th, it just wouldn't fit with the tone/sound of the music.
      (4 votes)
  • female robot grace style avatar for user Alanna
    Is conducting good exercise, since they wave their arms a lot?
    (4 votes)
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  • leaf blue style avatar for user KuzeL1
    where did he start loving music
    (3 votes)
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  • duskpin tree style avatar for user ab90153
    Why does the condoctor have a stik
    (3 votes)
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  • leafers ultimate style avatar for user Nathan Taylor
    At , Schwarz talks about the how a half note should be equal to 108 (the speed of the piece), but that this indirectly means that the conductor wanted the piece of music to feel like there is only one note per measure. How is this so? Schwartz goes on to say that this is done in spite of the fact that the piece is written is 2/4 time signature. Can someone explain the combined effect of these two things together (the 2/4 time signature while trying to have a half note equal the 108 beats per minute on his metronome)? It is simply meant to speed up the movement and give a feeling of swiftness?

    What would it have meant if the half note equaled 108, but it was written in a different time signature? How would the piece have felt differently?
    (3 votes)
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    • leaf blue style avatar for user Peterson
      When we are talking about metronome markings, as in the case above, we are only saying that there should be 108 half notes played in the space of a minute (60 seconds). When we are in 2/4 time, each measure contains only one half note. Thus, the rhythmic pulse of the music is at the starting note of each measure, while 108 measures (with however many notes they may contain) are performed every minute. The half note does not have a set lenght; it can vary, and is only used to determine its relation to other notes (twice the length of a quarter note, four times the length of an eighth note).

      Ultimately, when the half note equals 108, the piece is going to be very swift. If the half note was still 108, but the piece was in 4/4, its speed would be the same, but the pulse would be felt every four quarter notes (instead of two). Also, since there are two half notes in a 4/4 measure, a measure would be played every two seconds, but since the measure are twice as long, it would make no difference on the overall tempo of the piece.
      (2 votes)
  • aqualine ultimate style avatar for user Rishika
    How do they actually decide the value of fermata? the conductor gives the clue or the musicians decide it?
    (1 vote)
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    • blobby green style avatar for user Hococo Hcco
      In an orchestra, the conductor usually gets to decide the length of the fermata, but often, if a solo instrument is holding a note at the end of a phrase, the conductor may defer to the individual player leaving it up to their taste. Also, depending on what has come before, the conductor may wish for the fermata to be quite a bit longer than the written note value. It depends on the momentum being built up to the fermata or, in the opposite way, how much the music may be calming down going into the fermata. For dramatic purposes, if there are two fermatas in a row, as in the finale of Beethoven's Symphony No. 1, the conductor may choose to hold the second fermata longer than the first to increase the suspense. Listen to the following example at about 29: 25 and you'll see the conductor leading the two fermatas. Listen for how the timpani's notes are stretched longer on the second fermata before the music resumes its normal tempo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pj2neof3MIs
      (4 votes)

Video transcript

(Symphony No. 5 by Ludwig van Beethoven) - Did you ever wonder what the conductor's doing up there? Obviously when the conductor's waving his hands he's not making any sound the musicians are making all the noise or all the music or in this case it's this great orchestra making these great performances. Well we do have a little influence on what goes on and I thought it would be interesting to take a few moments in this first movement of the Beethoven 5th Symphony and tell you what I'm doing and what I'm thinking about while I'm doing it. First I have to give you a little elementary music lesson which if you know it you can skip past this. But there are a few things we need to know. If you look at the first page of the score, you'll see it says two four at the beginning of the line. Two four means that there are two beats in every measure, and a quarter note is getting a beat. So the first question is, what's a measure? If you look at that score, you'll see a line. It's called a bar line. You'll have a few notes and a bar line. That is a measure. It's either a bar or a measure. Two beats in each one of those little measures and a quarter note gets a beat. So what's a quarter note? Well you have to understand, in this case, just three note values. A quarter note, like a fraction, 1/4, it's a black note with a stem. A eighth note, which is a black note with a line and an extra flag. And a half note, which is a white note with one stem. They are fractions. So how many quarter notes do you get in a half note? Well two. How many eighth notes you get in a half note? Four. And that's the whole point, that's it, it's very simple. The other things you need to know, you need to know what a fermata is. A fermata is a sign that a composer puts down for the conductor, performer, to hold a note longer than what's written but without a specific amount of time. You can judge it on your own. The other thing we have is we have a tie. And a tie is where two half notes are being held together. The tie means you don't re-articulate, you don't repeat that note. So to back up again, two four, how many beats in a measure? Two. What kind of note gets a beat? That's a quarter note. You have an eighth note with a flag. A quarter note, no flag. And a half note, which is white not black. A bar or a measure, we have a bar line. Pretty simple. Now let's look some more at the score. It says Allegro con brio, which means fast, with bravura, brio. It also says, if you see, half note equals 108. So what does that mean? Well that's the tempo. The tempo that the composer recommends. It doesn't mean you have to do that but if I would punch a metronome in (metronome beating) that's a 108. There's something important about that. He says a half note equals 108. Which means that he believes that the piece should be felt per bar. One beat per bar rather than two, even though he wrote it in two four. Okay, now you know all the fundamental material. So let's look at what I do and how it relates to the piece and the performance. The most important thing, you notice that the very first bar has two Fs. That means loud, very loud, almost the loudest that we can do. And it starts with this little rest. So one more thing to know is a rest. The little rest means you don't play. So if you look at the first measure or the first bar, there's a eighth rest and three eighth notes. The famous three notes, ♪ Ba ba ba ♪ and then it arrives on the half note ♪ Baam ♪ with a fermata. So, what does the conductor have to do? He has to give a good upbeat. That's when he brings his hands up, that's an upbeat, and then boom, downbeat. So it's crucial to have a good upbeat and a good downbeat. The upbeat and downbeat indicate what the tempo is going to be. Great orchestras like this one, you give a sign like that, and they know exactly how to play. From the first time we play this through, they knew exactly what the tempo was. Then we hold that half note with intensity. We don't let it get softer, there is no decrescendo, there is no diminuendo, Beethoven says keep it loud. Then he has another eighth rest. So if you count to the third bar, there's another eighth rest, three more notes, going to another half note this time, tied to a second half note with a fermata indicating probably should be a little bit longer. Okay so the conductor, I, give a good solid upbeat. So if you notice we do a slow motion now. I begin from a downward position, I raise my hand and I give a big strong downbeat. This indicates the tempo and when the musicians should start. Then I hold with intensity, so my hand is strong to just reinforce the idea to the musicians that they shouldn't get softer, and then I do another wind up upbeat and pfft another big downbeat to again have those four notes played fortissimo, loudly, with the fermata. (orchestral music) The next moment is the hardest moment for the conductor. Some conductors actually cut off this half note with the fermata. And they add an extra bar so it would sound ♪ Ba ba ba bam ♪ and then ♪ Ba ba ba bam ♪ cut off. ♪ Ba ba ba bam ba ba ba ♪ they add a whole bar. ♪ Many conductors do this. I don't, I think it's wrong. I think if Beethoven wanted to have an extra bar, he would have written an extra bar. The reason that some conductors do that is because if you notice, the next entrance, so if you count the bar, one, two, three, four, five the sixth bar is marked with a p. The p means piano, which obviously means softly. The second violins begin softly. The problem is that when you play loudly, and the next note, if it's soft, won't be audible. And so it's very tricky, to cut off the loud and at the same give a beat for the soft. So what I do, I hold that second fermata with intensity, I come up, I release and I bounce. And when I bounce up, the second violins know to begin. Let's do this, first slow motion. (orchestral music in slow motion) And now, see in real time. (orchestral music in real time) What's interesting here, I never had to tell the orchestra how I do it. I just did it. And they were perfect. Every time. Interesting. And when you get an orchestra of this calibre, which is maybe the greatest orchestra ever assembled, the conductor doesn't need to do much, 'cause he's giving all the signs with his hands. So here we go, now what happens next? There are a bunch of bars that go on, it's all soft, everybody comes in with a little with a little figure, I'm not doing much here, I don't need to do much here. I mean I could actually stop conducting and there wouldn't be a problem 'cause they would play together. So I keep time, make sure the pulse continues to go at the same speed. Then you notice there's a piano sign and it says, c-r-e-s-c period, which means crescendo, gets louder, and then it goes to a forte. There are three forte chords, three bars, and another fermata. In this fermata, only the first violins are holding. Now the key here is very important that the orchestra does not make any crescendo until that one bar. So what the conductor does is, at that bar, he'll give an explosion, or she'll give an explosion. And that's what I do. Then I give three big chords and the fermata for the first violins, again, with intensity. (orchestra playing) We move on and we see again the three notes three of the eighth rests and three eighth notes going to a half note, tied to another half note with a fermata, and it's the same routine again. And this time, the piano, the soft entrance, is in the first violins, and they begin. The next page, we see that the crescendo is over four bars. So that's pretty good. That's not as hard. You'll watch the conductor, you'll watch me. And you can see that my motions are growing with intensity, and we arrive at, what we call sforzandos, and then continuous forte. And then you'll see fortissimo. So what I have to do here is just remind the orchestra that this part is louder than the one before. Not a big deal, they know it, I just reinforce it. So if you watch my motions, I'm conducting forte, big big motions with intensity, and then I do something to make it louder and bigger. And you can see that. Again, they could do this without me, the tempo doesn't change 'cause it's the same speed, but I'm reinforcing what's in the score. (orchestra playing) Then you'll see two big chords and the horns introduce the second theme. So they play, ♪ Ba ba ba bam, bam, bam ♪ then we go to the second theme, begins in the first violins. (strong violin chords) (horns playing) (soft violins) The second theme is a very lyrical theme. So my motions are not as choppy and aggressive as they were for the whole beginning. It becomes smooth. And what I try to do here is give an idea of what the phrasing should be. So if you look at the violin part, it says piano dolce. Dolce, sweetly. You know when we go to a restaurant and the Italian restaurant says dolce, that's about the dessert. But what Beethoven's looking for here is a sweet beautiful quality. He doesn't indicate any dynamics. In other words, it's piano throughout. So the question for the conductor is, should there be some phrasing? Should there be some ups and down, like a speech? Or should it be monotone? I like phrasing so the phrasing I like you can tell by my motions, it's like an upbeat ♪ Da dum ♪ and then ♪ Da da dee da da dum ♪ ♪ Da da dee da da dum ♪ So the two little emphases the first one of course is after that upbeat. If you look at my motions, I do that. When I was conducting the orchestra, I never said one word to them about phrasing. I never said they should phrase it this way. I did it and they followed me. Then if you notice, we have a little sequence which goes ♪ La la dee dum da da dee da ♪ ♪ Da da dee dum da da da dum ♪ What I do is I do a little louder, ♪ Da da da dum ♪ then a little softer, ♪ Da da dee dum ♪ then a little more, ♪ Da da dee da ♪ then a little less, ♪ Da dee da dum ♪ Now, a big crescendo begins and I start quite soft. (orchestra playing) Again, if you watch my motions, I do all of that. I've never said a word to the orchestra about what I was doing, I just did it. Beethoven doesn't indicate any of that until the crescendo. And then the crescendo, what I do, if you noticed my motions, I do the crescendo starting softer. Because it's a long crescendo. It goes for 10 bars or so. And I want the crescendo to be gradual, I don't want them to be too soon. I wanted to arrive at the fortissimo. (orchestra playing) This fortissimo is a big moment. Again, they don't need me here. It just moves wonderfully through, if they can hear each other, if it's good acoustics in the room, it's not a problem. If you notice a few bars later in the cellos and basses, they now have quarter notes. If you notice the quarter notes don't have any indication. Should they be long? Should they be short? Should they be spaced? All it says is fortissimo. I like these long. And so I have long gestures for the cellos and basses. Again, never said a word to the orchestra. I just made the gesture of long notes and these incredible musicians just did it. The first time through. Remarkable. (orchestral playing) Then if you go to the next page, you'll see we arrive at a double bar with dots. Double bar meaning a little thicker bar line, and with those two dotes. That indicates a repeat. Now many conductors, in works by the great masters, don't do these repeats. The Beethoven 5th repeat, almost everyone does, because the movement is quite short. But in Brahms' symphonies, for example, most conductors don't do the repeats. I think they should always be done. If you asked me why, the composer wrote them. Brahms wrote a repeat, am I greater than Brahms? Do I know more than Brahms knows? Certainly not. I do what Brahms tells me to do. On a rare occasion, if a piece is too long or a concert is too long, you can on occasion eliminate a repeat and it doesn't hurt the music. But in principle, I'm a great believer in always doing the repeats. Okay, that's the whole exposition of this great first movement. Once you do that whole repeat, and basically with the same motions and the same ideas, sometime maybe a little variety, obviously it's gonna be a little different, it's never always gonna be the same, then we move to the development section. And the development section in this case begins in a very dramatic way. Again like the opening but very different. It gives you the impression that something unusual is going to happen rather than we're gonna move through this, the same thing at the beginning. So again, I do it very slightly slower. I mean you won't even notice it but it is imperceptibly slower but with the same kind of intensity. And then of course with the same issue after the fermata. How to have the loud release and with a kind of rebound, the soft begin. (orchestra playing) So as you watch and listen to the next section of the development, you'll see little subtle changes in my motions. But basically, it's just keeping everything together, keeping it moving, reinforcing the dynamics, reinforcing the accents that Beethoven wrote, until we get to this place of these half note chords. And the half note chords go between the woodwinds and horns and the strings. Back and forth, back and forth. (orchestral music) What I try to do is have them connect. I don't believe that Beethoven intended the woodwinds to be a separate gesture from the string gesture. I mean one could say it is, but in my estimation, these repeated chords are to be connected. So I give motions that indicate that the player should sustain those half notes full value. And again, without any decrescendo, without getting softer until it's marked, and then you can see it says d-i-m-i-n period. Diminuendo, which means gets softer. And we get softer over a period of six bars and then we arrive at the piano. So now we're at the piano. And it says, sempre piu piano. Sempre piu piano means always more piano. Soft, always softer. So piu means more. But if it says piu piano, it means more softly. So we're getting always softer, always. Then it arrives at two Ps. And now it's really soft, it's pianissimo. And then all of a sudden, there's this huge fortissimo. So you've gotten from the softest moment in the symphony to the loudest moment in the symphony, from pianissimo to fortissimo, and again, the conductor's job is simply to reinforce what the composer wrote. And I give a big sign for that fortissimo. (orchestra playing) And again, we have the same problem, we have to release the fortissimo and be able to hear the pianissimo, the dialogue between the woodwinds and the strings. And once again, I give a big beat to indicate the reinstatement of the fortissimo and we arrive back at the big fermatas like the beginning. (dramatic orchestral music) So it's an indication of what we call the recapitulation, it's all coming back. But what happens here that's a little different, the oboe takes over, leading to a little oboe cadenza. So if you watch what I do, I gesture to the oboe. Since that's the new material, I want the oboe and everyone to notice that that's what we should listen for. We've heard everything else before but never this. So the oboe solo begins, I make a gesture towards the oboe, and then it arrives at the oboe cadenza. (floating oboe solo notes) During the oboe cadenza, I never say a word. Our great oboist, John Ferrillo from the Boston Symphony, plays it magnificently. I never discussed it with him, he just played it and it was perfection. My job after that, is to anticipate when that last note of his, again, it's a note with a fermata, and if you notice in his cadenza, it says adagio, which means very slowly, and then with the fermata for all of us, we just wait for the oboe, and he has an additional fermata on his last note, and then I come in with the same material that we heard from the beginning. Again, it leads to forte, and then accents, and then fortissimo, and this time the introduction of the second theme is by the bassoon rather than by the horn. So I look at the bassoon, believe me, the bassoon can come in without me looking, on the other hand, you never know, to have a little reinforcement doesn't hurt. And then we go back to the same second theme, the same kind of phrasing, and the same crescendo, except this time, the crescendo is even longer, I think it's 14 bars. And it gets to that big fortissimo. What I do, I slow down slightly. Beethoven was known for, at the biggest moments, sometimes not forging ahead but holding back, and I hold the tempo slightly back to that fortissimo, and then immediately I do what we call, a tempo, back in the same speed that it was going before. And now we go this whole section which is quite loud with accents sometimes there's some issues with what we call ensembles so I have to give a little clear beat to make sure everyone can jump in and find their moments. And then there's this big loud note and then there's a soft, ♪ Ba ba ba bam ♪ by the woodwinds. ♪ And then, there's a bar rest and then another big beat like the beginning. This is a tricky spot for the conductor. Because he ends big, or she ends big, then gives a little sign for the woodwinds, and then you have to be very careful not to give any sign for that bar rest so that no one jumps in, and you give a big sign for when they're supposed to come in. And then we have this great moment for the whole ending where I love hearing these horns playing this passage in the timpani and if you watch me, I give a sign for the horns and I give this big sign for the timpani and the timpani, actually it's only marked forte, but I actually give the sign to indicate that he should play it louder, which he did. Again, I never said a word. I just gave a big sign for that. As we move forward, again in the cellos, basses, and this time with the violas, these quarter notes come back in and again the question is how long should they be? If you watch me, I'm indicating they should be long, everybody played them long. Then, it gets to the real climax of the movement. And again, I hold the tempo back. And then we move to another dialogue between the woodwinds and the strings. (orchestra playing) Again I try to connect so you'll see in my motions, that I'm holding that last quarter note of the woodwinds, holding the last note of the strings so that we all connect and have one sentence rather than a sentence that's chopped up. Finally, we get to the very end. Again with the same gesture like the beginning, the same fermata, (orchestral climax) The coda is very short and very beautiful. It really is a section for the woodwinds, and I try to phrase that. So if you watch me now, you'll see that I do a little phrasing for the woodwinds. (orchestral woodwinds strands) And then immediately, we're back to the fortissimo, and go to the end of the movement without any slowing down, without slowing of intensity, and in a very dramatic way. So I think you've seen in the description of what goes on, in this movement for example, much of it can be played the orchestra can play it by themselves. But there are those moments when they need me. And my job is to be there when they need me.