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Organic chemistry
Course: Organic chemistry > Unit 9
Lesson 5: Directing effectsMultiple substituents
The directing effects of substituents on a benzene ring. Created by Jay.
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- When we have two deactivators, we take directing effects from the one which is less deactivating, right?(12 votes)
- Right, but with two deactivators it will take some strenuous conditions to add another substituent to the ring.(10 votes)
- Why won't the sulfonic group interact with the other substituents instead of benzene?(5 votes)
- It does The reactants also react with the phenolic OH group to form p-cresyl hydrogen sulfate, but this ester rearranges under the reaction conditions to the ring -sulfonated product. The net effect is as if they had never reacted with the OH group at all.(6 votes)
- At. Is it possible to get 1,3-dichloro-2-methyl-5-nitrobenzene as a side product? 1:50(4 votes)
- What would happen if you would have a strong deactivator and a strong activator in meta positions, where would the added substituent go in these conditions? Would the substituent follow the ortho para from the strong activator or would it add meta thanks to the strong deactivator?(3 votes)
- It probably depends on their relative strengths, but usually the strong activator wins.
For example. chlorination of 3-nitrophenol gives mainly 4-chloro-3-nitro phenol.(3 votes)
- Chlorine is a weak deactivator not a donor. Atleast that's what I've learnt(2 votes)
- Yes, because Cl can donate its one of the lone pair to the benzene ring in order to stabilise it but on the other hand, Cl is an electronegative element so it shows -I effect and withdraws electron through sigma bond. However, the induction of withdrawing electron density through induction is greater than donation of the lone pair. Hence, Cl is ortho- and para- deactivator. Its ortho-/para- directing only because of donation of lone pairs !(4 votes)
- If we have 2 substituents directing to 2 different positions one of them is strong deactivating and the other is a weak activating group.
According to which one the electrophile would go ?!(3 votes)- The electrophile would go para or ortho to the weak activator, but it would not go between the two substituents.(2 votes)
- At, are the products equally made or is one more stable than the other? Also does Cl being a deactivator and CH3 being an activator make any difference? 6:14(3 votes)
- Aren't Halogens ortho/para deactivators? meaning that they are Electron Withdrawing Groups, right? If yes, then don't halogens favor the meta position?
Thanks in advance.(2 votes)- Yes, halogens are EWGs. Their inductive effect removes electrons from the ring, so they are deactivators.
But their resonance effect puts more electron density on the ortho and para positions than on the meta positions.
The deactivated ring still has more electron density at the ortho/para positions, so that's where an electrophile will attack.(3 votes)
- If I has toluene and bromo group on ortho so where will nitro will attach on this ring(2 votes)
- For the last example, why did you use the chlorine to determine where the substituents would be added? isn't chlorine considered a weak deactivator why the methyl group is considered a weak activator? therefore shouldn't the methyl group be used in this case instead of the Cl?(2 votes)
- He is actually using both.
After a lot of digging I think I have an answer for why the Cl is just as important (comments by real chemists strongly desired).
These conclusions are based on data here:
https://www2.chemistry.msu.edu/faculty/reusch/virttxtjml/benzrx1.htm
So, the relative rates (compared with benzene) are:
methyl group — ortho = 43, meta = 3, para = 55
chloro group — ortho = 0.03, meta = 0, para = 0.14
If we assume that these relative rates multiply on a multiply substituted molecule, for 3-chlorotoluene you would get that the relative rates would be:
position 2: ~1 = 43 * 0.03
position 4: ~2 = 55 * 0.03
position 5: ~0 = 3 * 0
position 6: 6.0 = 43 * 0.14
This seems to conflict with what Jay says, but we are ignoring steric effects which make position 2 very unfavorable and perhaps make position 6 less favorable.(1 vote)
Video transcript
Now that we understand ortho
para and meta directors, let's see what
happens when you have multiple substituents
on a benzene ring. So if I look at
this first reaction, I can tell that this is
a halogenation reaction. And it's going to put a
chlorine onto the ring. The question is where
will the chlorine go. To figure that out you have
to look at your substituents and see what kind of
directors they are. So we'll start right here
with this methyl group, which we know is an ortho
para director. So it's going to direct the
chlorine to the ortho and para positions. And so this would be
the ortho position. And this is also
an ortho position. But by symmetry these
are the same thing, if you think about
the molecule here. The para position is occupied
by this nitro group right here. And so we can't add anything
on para in this example. If we look at the nitro
group, right here, I think about what kind
of a director that is. I know that it's a meta
director from the reasons we talked about in previous videos. So the position that's
meta to this nitro group would, of course, end up
being the exact same carbons that we marked before,
which again by symmetry are the same ones here. So this turns out to be a case
where both of my substituents direct to the same spot. And so I can go ahead
and draw my product. So I have my have benzene ring. And I have my substituents
on there, my methyl group, and also my nitro group. And I could have picked either
one of these two carbons, so this one or this one. It doesn't matter which
one you choose again, because of symmetry, you will
get an identical product here. So we're going to put a chlorine
on in one of those positions, ortho to the methyl group,
and meta to the nitro group. And so that's the only
product that we will get. Let's do another one here. Let's look at this reaction. So I know that this is a
sulfonation reaction, right. So I'm going to put an SO3H
group onto my benzene ring. And the question is,
where will that group go. And so once again I
analyze my substituents. And first I look
at the OH group, which I know is an ortho
para director, right. So this is an ortho
para director here. And I'd look at where
that would be on my ring. Well, once again this would
be the ortho position. And again by symmetry, the
same ortho position over there. The para position is once again
taken up by this methyl group here. When I think about the
methyl group-- so let me just use a different
color for that one. The methyl group is also
an ortho para director. So what's ortho and para
to the methyl group. Well this would be ortho, right. These two spots
would be ortho, again identical because of symmetry. The para spot is taken
up by this OH here. And so now we have a case
where we have two ortho para directors directing
to different spots. And so the way to
figure out which one wins is to think
about the activating strength of these two
ortho para directors. So the strongest
activator is going to be the directing group. And the strongest activator
here is, of course, the OH group here. So this is a strong activator. And the methyl group we
saw is a weak activator from some of the
earlier videos here. So the spot that's
going to get the SO3H is this carbon, which
again by symmetry would be this one right here. So we can go ahead and draw
the product of this sulfonation reaction. So let me go ahead and
sketch in my benzene ring. Let me do another one here. That one wasn't very good. And we have our ring. We have our OH. We have our methyl group. And since the OH is the
strongest activator, we're going to go ahead and
put SO3H ortho to the OH. And that is our final product. Let's do one more example. So let's see what happens
with this reaction here. So once again I
can identify this as being a halogenation
reaction where I add a chlorine onto my ring. And let's go ahead and analyze
the substituents once again. So I have a methyl
group again, which I know is an ortho
para director. So I'll go ahead and
mark the spots that are ortho and para
to that methyl group. So this would be
the ortho position. This would be the
ortho position. And then this time the
para position is free, so we could possibly
put the chlorine there. If I look at what
else is on my ring, right-- so I have
another substituent here, which is a chlorine. We know that halogens are also
ortho para directors because of the lone pair of electrons
that are on the chlorine there. So an ortho para director
for the chlorine. So what's ortho to
this chlorine here. Well this spot is ortho. So is this spot and
so is this spot. And so we have a couple of
different possible products here. And let's go ahead and
start drawing them here. So if I think
about the product-- if we add on a chlorine
onto this position. Let me go ahead and draw that. So we would have our
benzene ring here. We would have our methyl group. We would have our chlorine. And it's possible
that a chlorine would add on to that position. Let's next look
at this position. So this could be another
possible product here. So let me go ahead and
draw that one as well. So we have our benzene ring. And we have our methyl group. And we had the chlorine that
was originally on our ring. And then we're adding on a
chlorine to this position. And finally, let's
go ahead and think about what would happen
if a chlorine tried to add to this final position
right here on the right. Well, it turns out that there's
just too much steric hindrance for a chlorine to add
on to this position. So if you think about this
methyl group being bulky and this chlorine
being bulky, that makes it difficult for another
chlorine to add to here. So this is not observed
in large amounts. So this product, we're going
to say, does not form here. And so we're left with two major
products for this reaction. And that's how to think
about synthesis-- directing effects in synthesis--
when you're talking about
multiple substituents. First think about where the
substituents will direct. And you have to think
about activating strength. And then finally, think
about steric hindrance for your products.